Song Composition Guide

[Damelon]

Ariezel's Insidious Shriek -- doesn't this make them miss in melee more instead of the spell accuracy?  Or am I thinking of a different shout?

[Penstar]

As a new (returning) bard, who just hit level 18, this has a WEALTH of information in it that I didn't know.  I thought I was all sophisticated with my macros. Ha! Thanks lots. 

p.s. I really hope this is all up to date.  The posts look pretty old.

[Daggar]

A few things might have changed, but you should see the changes pretty quick

[jmatt]

Wow.  I played to level 18 and never knew how much of this class I was wasting.  Thanks!

[Daggar]

Glad you found it helpful,

hope you are able to find more answers to questions, and things that are helpful to your leveling and game play

[cleavland]

What mob drops the trainable 8th rest?  You also mention some components don't stack and say you will discuss later and don't or is it only the ones that say "single use only"?  You also say that using components designed for instrument mods without the instrument is bad but your own DPS song has brass, voice, and string components.  Is that DPS song the best possible?

[Daggar]

Sung's rest is a learnable ability that is a random drop off the world loot table.  Hence meaning that ANY mob could drop it.  But you will find it is a very very unlikely drop.  Many different mobs I have seen drop the rest, from mobs in and outside of RI to TOT mobs in the temples, to mobs inside of NN.  It is a random drop tho, so no promise camping any one mob will do it for you.

No, not all components stack.  The ones that read only one use are very clear.  There are some that are not so clear, but more because they will not stack with other components, but will with themselves.  RoW and AoW are a good example of this.

Components that use different mods are not for say bad to use in combinations, but wide spread of them in different combos might be less effective.  Using an instrument to mod the component is great, but there are other mods then instruments.  I will run a voice mod in my mask 1.53, a brass mod in my helm 1.25, and a string mod in my gloves 1.30 at all times.  So a DPS song that takes advantage of all of these will be more effective then one that would add in another component such as wind.

Tal

[Crescent]

Dagger is right that the drops are all random, but I've seen 2 of the rests drop from archmages in NN, so if you Really want to farm a mob, I would try those.

[Nanan]

No one in my guild has seen Sungs rest drop ever, this is 60+ players who have done ToT, NN and rahz on multiple chars. The drop rate is just to low, no other class has a spell or ability that less then 1% of the population has seen drop in over a years time.

Please for the love of god bump the drop rate up, make it drop in APW, make it a quest reward, something, this is frustrating. I would pay $100 for the damn rest if thats what it takes.

[Daggar]

Nanan,

You are from Seradon, so I know it is not a server thing.  I have only been on Seradon for about a year and a half.  ( was on Sartok before that ) and since I have come to Seradon, I have seen the rest drop at least 4 times now.

Altho I agree it should be a little more then four times in a year, I still like the fact that it is something that does set some apart.  It is not something everyone will have.

( this convo seems fimilar like I have said it before sorry if I have )

[Xndyr]

I've also seen it drop on Seradon (but only once---but dammit I was in a PUG and someone "needed" the thing and wouldn't let me have it, but was more than willing to sell it to me for 2pp, which I didnt' have at the time).

[cleavland]

No, not all components stack.  The ones that read only one use are very clear.  There are some that are not so clear, but more because they will not stack with other components, but will with themselves.  RoW and AoW are a good example of this.

AoW and RoW don't stack???  I'd really appreciate a full explaination of this whole issue or a seperate thread about this stuff.  I also heard certain bard and psi stuff doesn't stack.  Could you explain this?

[Crescent]

This is correct.  The history of they why and wherefores is rather long and convoluted so I will let someone else explain that, but yes AoW and RoW do no stack any longer.

Also, you are right to say that Coda of Alacrity and the psi's Temporal Acceleration also do not stack.

[Daggar]

Will see if I can explain, well first I will pull you the conversations that came after we learnt of these changes.

Coda Thread

Stacking Dmg

Both of these go into detail as to why they where chanced.  Altho I do not agree with coda to a point, I do see and understand why it had to come about.  Feel free to read both of these threads, and if you still have questions on it, will be more then happy to answer them for you best I can mate.

Tal

[cleavland]

do gamael's of different magic schools stack if you have 2 bards in a group, say 1 bard has 3 fire and the other has 3 cold? wasn't sure about this it seems like it should but idk if u can only have 1 proc per attack.  I looked at a thread about gamaels but it wasnt very clear about a situation with 2 bard songs stacking together.

[Daggar]

not suppose to, but I have seen it.

long ago mind you, so not sure if it can currently happen

[Crescent]

wait, you are saying that you Aren't supposed to be able to get gameal's of two different types to proc on the same attack?

[grack]

wait, you are saying that you Aren't supposed to be able to get gameal's of two different types to proc on the same attack?

from 2 different bards they are saying.
Bard A = using fire proc
Bard B = using poison proc

(I wonder if they do. I always assumed that they did.)
What about raids? Bard A in group 1 and bard B in group 2?

[Daggar]

wait, you are saying that you Aren't supposed to be able to get gameal's of two different types to proc on the same attack?

from 2 different bards they are saying.
Bard A = using fire proc
Bard B = using poison proc

(I wonder if they do. I always assumed that they did.)
What about raids? Bard A in group 1 and bard B in group 2?

I believe ( and very well might be wrong ) that you should not.  But it is entirely possible that you can.  In fact I believe I can very easily test this with out much effort and tell you for certain if it works or not.  I do know that at one time, you where not suppose to.
As in the ex.
The two groups procs would not mix, because the bards are in depreate groups.  Thus the procs of one bard would not effect the effects of the other bards.

[Xndyr]

I'm pretty sure that different gamael's will stack.  I know that there was a time back in late beta, early release, when bards were discussing whether it was best to have 1 of each type in your song, for 3 different procs, or all of the same type for a higher chance ot proc that type.

I can tell you with a certainty, that I have seen 3 procs on one swing, with each of the 3 different gamael types.  I can't tell you if that has been changed though.  But back when i was a little bard, and experimenting with my songs, i had a screenshot that showed one swing, with a poison, cold and fire proc from the same attack.

I would guess that if it works for a single bard, that it would work for two bards in one group.  Likewise, I would believe that if that works, then if both bards had 3 of the same type, that you'd see the same percentage chance to proc that type x6.

[Crescent]

as far as my experience shows, the first part of what you said is correct xndyr, however I am fairly certain that somewhere along the line, they made it so that you could not multi-proc the same component type.  For example, I dont think you can see two or three procs of viper at the same time anymore, instead of the 30%, 2%, .1% ratio as it is for three of a different type, its now just 30% if using the same type.  Now I will freely admit that it Used to be that you could multi-proc viper, but alas i think they changed it.

[Crescent]

so did some testing and I am 95% certain of the following (other 5% is counted towards standard statistical error)

1 Fire, Cold, and Poison Proc will stack and can proc at the same time on a given attack

3 Viper or venom components will only ever proc once on a given hit.

if two bards play 3 viper, and the other 3 venom only the song with either the Highest mod, or the most recently refreshed (if same mod) will have procs of thier song type proc.  These procs will only occur once per given hit.

Hence if playing 3 of a similiar type expect to only see one of the procs per hit, if playing three seperate types expect to see the occurence of more than one proc at a time.

I personally feel that while getting the bigger damage proc (viper) is nice, having the additional procs from all three is better.  This is of course ignoring mobs that are healed/weak to a particular type and then of course a triple comp would be recommended.

[Daggar]

thanks for your testing Crescent.

well we do have what is working currently, but still unknown if it is intended.  I would believe so, but have been proven wrong number of times. hehehe

Tal