Official Discussion Thread SoE Acquires Sigil Assets

[Warsongs]

http://forums.station.sony.com/vg/posts/list.m?topic_id=9105

smed:

Hello Everyone,

Today I would like to formally announce that SOE has acquired the assets of Sigil Games Online, including Vanguard: Saga of Heroes. As a part of this acquisition, we are bringing on approx 50 people from Sigil in order to insure that Vanguard continues to grow. SOE is dedicated to making sure that Vanguard is well taken care of and that we provide the same level of service we do for our other titles. In the near future we will come out with a publishing plan that will largely be driven by the strong player community that Vanguard has already built up. We plan on supporting Vanguard for many years to come, and you can expect many content updates as part of your subscription. Down the line we will of course be coming out with new expansion packs, but right now the focus is on making sure Vanguard is running the way it should be.

We are also officially opening up forums. In the past, our deal with Sigil didn't allow for this, but as with our other games we fill this is an important part of communicating with the playerbase. You can expect a strong presence from our community team as well as the development team members. While we realize that Sigil had said they wouldn't open up general forums, at SOE we fill this hampers our efforts to communicate effectively with the players. We will continue to support the fansites in a big way, and will be contacting many of them directly to discuss what this change means. By no means do we want to lose the strong fansite support by making this change, but we do think it's important to have a forum for players to communicate directly with SOE.

A few other items I wanted to mention

1. Brad McQuaid will be consultant to SOE as a creative advisor for Vanguard. Dave Gilbertson will be the person directly responsible for the day-to-day management of both the Sigil Carlsbad office as well as Vanguard.

2. We do not plan on making any major changes to Vanguard. Any changes are going to come from the team itself. We aren't mandating any big changes to the game. We've learned a thing or two with our experiences with the NGE and don't plan on repeating mistakes from the past and not listening to the players.

3. We do plan on spending a lot of time cleaning up legacy issues with Vanguard and making sure the game's performance improves.

By way of comparison, this team is approx. the same size as the EQ2 team and I feel like that team has done an amazing job improving EQ2 since it's launch. We intend to do the same thing for Vanguard and it is our hope that the players feel like we're doing right by them.

Smed

[Zonin]

If Smed is saying that the VG is as big as the EQ2 team thats great:) If he means it IS the EQ2 dev team...oh no!

[Xeromist]

If they can actually do all that I will be nothing short of thrilled. I'm happy to see someone acknowledging legacy issues and a lack of performance.

Oh and as to the forums: Brad's plan actually worked well in a way. Thanks to the lack of official forums a lot of users have become involved in the affiliate sites and probably will remain so. Now that we have official forums hopefully we'll be able to better communicate with the devs (time will tell).

All in all very positive. I understand these things are supposed to sound positive but I'm crossing my fingers that it will come to pass.

[StrikeAnywhere]

Sounds good to me... in all honesty I was kind of hoping for this. I know a lot of others have vendeta's against SoE for past experiences, but I never had anything to really complain about... I welcome the change and have high hopes for some fixes.

[Servo2k]

3. We do plan on spending a lot of time cleaning up legacy issues with Vanguard and making sure the game's performance improves.

As in make it so it works on something better than fast legacy technology?

1. Brad McQuaid will be consultant to SOE as a creative advisor for Vanguard. Dave Gilbertson will be the person directly responsible for the day-to-day management of both the Sigil Carlsbad office as well as Vanguard.

Honestly I would rather have a new creative advisor than someone who waffles their vision so often.

Even being the cynic that I am I can't help but feel relieved to have my new Sony overlords.

[Jinkys]

Interview with Smed:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6170763.html?action=convert&om_clk=latestnews&tag=latestnews;title;0

[Damelon]

Nice read.  Really like the fact that they aren't going to "care bear" it.  I'm sure changes are coming down the pipe, some that people won't like, but that soe feels is necessary to make the game viable.  So far, everything is encouraging from this gamer's pov.

[StrikeAnywhere]

*aren't* going to Care Bear it.

[Aak]

http://www.fohguild.org/forums/732163-post480.html

[Erik]

Nice catch Aak...


 05-15-2007, 04:47 PM    #480 (permalink) 
Nino
Fires of Heaven Officer
 

Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 191  My Status

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is much I would love to unload about right now, but seeing as I am feeling pretty emotional while trying to respect the wishes of remaining Vanguard management, I will refrain.

I knew this was coming months ago, as did most others, so I made arrangements prior to the whole unfolding of events today. Sony was kind enough to invite me and a few others to form a small team and to start prototyping a 'new' project. While we've done some 'secret' preliminary work, we begin in earnest tomorrow after we officially sign on with SOE. Don't bother asking about details, because you won't get any.

I became increasingly disenfranchised with the situation since the forced premature launch, which then culminated several weeks back when I decided I could not, in good conscience, continue serving the Sigil management staff in my over-extended capacity and stepped down. I would have walked away completely if this recent opportunity had not presented itself when it did.

I did the best I could with the time and resources I had at my disposal, but in the end it simply wasn't enough to bring the game up to the standards we all had hoped for in the time we had remaining. I apologize for any disappointments players have experienced. During the final year, I was pulling 80-100 hour weeks, and I was not at all alone in the building. I wish things could have been different.

While I was fortunate to stay employed, there were near 50 people today who were not, and it was painful watching the procession of stunned coworkers packing their belongings into little cardboard boxes with blank looks on their faces. I've never had to endure something like this, and I hope to never have to do it again. I know it is easy to point fingers at 'why' things ended up this way, but the vast, vast majority of the folks losing their jobs today had very little control on how events unfolded and many were skilled and creative people who simply wanted to make a great game.

The Vanguard team, obviously now much smaller, will go back to improving and fixing the game tomorrow. Myself and four others will be moving to a new location and beginning anew. The others will begin the process of trying to find a new place to work.

I promised not to be publically scornful, but I will say this: I hope those truly responsible for the deep rooted failings of the company lay in bed tonight and relive the events that transpired today in their heads, over and over. For not ONE of you is without your job come tomorrow morning.
__________________
Nino McHammer
Fires of Heaven
Veeshan 

[Cennyan]

I guess what I don't get is that SoE says basically that "now we gonna fix it all" and yet they fired half the staff.  Are they planning to suppliment the currently overworked staff with more people from SoE, or just cut their losses and hope the 50 people they still have can do it all? 

[Quetzal]

I am guessing SoE feels they have enough depth to cover the gaps they created by not hiring everyone. SoE also had to take a realistic financial assement and hire accordingly. I am pretty sure this game is not particularly profitable at the moment.

This game absolutely can be a success. The core is there, it just needs to be refined, tuned, and have the myriad of annoying bugs eliminated. It is nice to see the actual coders and designers being able to vent a little. They've confirmed what all of us playing the game had figured out long ago, that we've been playing a final beta. Had they held this game back even 2 months, we'd be in a much different place in terms of playerbase.

I for one am hoping they do some judicious server merges. I think we'll all benefit from feeling that there are more people around. I say feeling because it will be an illusion created by consolidation.

[Quetzal]

I'd also like to add that my heart is with all the good folks who got canned. Their boss didn't seem to have the courage to face them when it happened. My company is in the middle of a chapter 11 right now, so the empathy runs high for me. At least our CEO had the balls to call ALL of us into a room and explain the situation fully several MONTHS before it happened. You know what? Only about 3-4 people left in that time.

[Xeromist]

I for one am hoping they do some judicious server merges. I think we'll all benefit from feeling that there are more people around. I say feeling because it will be an illusion created by consolidation.

At first I thought eh what could it hurt? But I immediately realized that people have purchased the same plots on different servers and they'll be pretty pissed if they were to lose them. Would they get over it eventually? Probably, but it's not so simple as moving banks & inventory to another server with no harm or foul.

There's also the issue of the way some areas are designed. The Xennumet dungeon has been clogged from time to time with populations the way they stand. Basically areas have to be designed with the knowledge that if you put good stuff there you have to make it higher capacity so even if you can't do the events there is something to kill in the mean time.

[svann]

I guess what I don't get is that SoE says basically that "now we gonna fix it all" and yet they fired half the staff.  Are they planning to suppliment the currently overworked staff with more people from SoE, or just cut their losses and hope the 50 people they still have can do it all? 

My take is that soe didnt fire anyone.  They bought the game from sigil.  Now sigil has no game, so no reason to keep the employees.  Sigil fired them.

[Cennyan]

ok...I guess what I don't get is that SoE says basically that "now we gonna fix it all" and yet they didn't hire half the sigil staff. 

Better?

[Fisdatin]

Because good people don't make MMOs.   Talented people don't make MMOs.   Officemonkies working for MMO minimum wage make MMOs.  What happens when you take a bunch of artists and designers to make an MMO?  Vanguard happens.   It has so much - so much - potential that it nearly hurts you to even think about that dream not being realized.  But dreams and visions don't make a game happen.   It takes the discipline and structure of business and involved management to shape that dream into the mold of a reality.  I sincerely hope those that lost their jobs are able to find a new home where there is that structure and management in place to let your talents and dreams be realized.   What happened with Sigil is amoral at best, and a heinous level of villainous apathy and flippant disregard for peoples futures at worst.   I always thought it was SOE that was the problem with old EQ.   Now I know better;  there are individuals whom should have been held accountable.  Personally, I will stick around.   I think anyone that has been around since early beta (oct '05 here) has always known - come on, honestly now - that there was a lack of discipline and focus in transitioning Vision -> Reality.  I still love the promise of what Vanguard could be.   I still enjoy what vestiges of that promise currently exist.   I'll stick it out, and see if the addition of actual management to the new Vanguard staff will allow that remaining creativity to flourish and bring at least some of that dream to light.

[Strider]

Morally I think this sucks big time, but this is how things are made in  the corporate world and we can only wish that our game producers are more responsible when it comes to these situations. No law or stock market reaction stands in the way of a company firing all employed just to "cherry pick" the employees they want when they take over a business in this manner, sad but true.

From what I have seen so far I can only blame one guy. Thats the guy with the big promises, the guy that stated back in the beta that he would never abandon Vanguard and sell it to SoE, the guy who apearantly already had abandoned the game and didnt even show up his own office, the guy called Brad. For me he is just a glorified punk and I hope the salary with his new position as creative consultant reflects that.

That said I still have great hopes for the game and in the long run I think this will be a good thing, except for those that lost their jobs.

[ryoutou]

Fisdatin's comments are pretty spot on in my view.

Brad's mistake was not having done this before and ignoring his limitations. 

There are different types of managers.  Start up and turnaround folks are very different sorts of people than your long term CEO.  Very.  The first type is very often much more art/technical, a dreamer - and also often not one of these nuts willing to give your life away to work for years on end.

If Brad had instead from day one made his strategy to build a good game, then turn it over to another group and start building the next one - he would be the darling of the MMO community forever.  Give employees deep stock options so they get a 100k bonus or so from the title sale (enough to gratify the 80 hour a week types, not enough to make the talent independently wealthy) , move on to the next.

But hindsight is 20/20.

Anyway - this is good for us.  Lots of folks hate Smed for the NGE, and as dead horse as they are its them we have to thank for our game having a much better shot at remaining a challenging, solid game long term.

[Suntsu]

1:  Business is Business.  You don't do a deal with emotion attached or you go out of business.  You can foo-foo and emotionally rationalize however you want but MMO is business and tough non-emotional realities must be addressed to survive.  Sometimes that means you fire a ton of folks and sell out.  Quite frankly if they did not sell out they would likely have lost the player base sense they could not complete the project and competition is fierce.

2:  Look around your office or place of work today.  Would you rehire 100% of the workforce?  Would 100% of the workforce WANT to be rehired?

[tehbard]

http://www.f13.net/index.php?itemid=561

Apparently the office monkeys knew what they were doing, management just game them crap idea wise and tool wise to work with.

I am very saddened 

[Servo2k]

http://www.f13.net/index.php?itemid=561

Apparently the office monkeys knew what they were doing, management just game them crap idea wise and tool wise to work with.

I am very saddened 

Ouch no dev tools and 1 QA guy.  That sums up item consistancy and gaping error problems we're still experiencing.

[Cennyan]

I'd remind everyone that the interview was from someone fired from Sigil and not rehired by Sony.  In otherwords, despite any talent that he may have, for whatever reason, he was not wanted on the team.  While much of his statements where "factual" in that they gave numbers and the like (such as 1 person in the QA) much of it was disgruntled opinions about his bosses.  He named a few people in there and basically said "they are all arrogant and suck".  I wouldn't really hold much if any weight to that.  Yes, we all know Brad sucks, that's been known since the days of EQ...people just had to learn the lesson twice I guess.  As far as the others he mentioned I wouldn't necessarily hold them to any worth as, once again, they where this guys bosses.  I hate my boss...if someone asked me "What was wrong with working at X" I can come up with 100 different bad things to say about my boss.  But, in all fairness, the guy does a really good job at being the boss even if he is a complete arrogant prick.  If I was fired, I would not mention any of my bosses good points and only stress his failings.  Just my 2 cents....the guy being interviewed is obviously not worth keeping..he's disgruntled..and he needs someone to blame.  

[tehbard]

There's something to be said about an arrogant/prick-like boss in a successful company compared to the same type of boss where your company closes up shop and sells off assets to the company(SOE) everyone was trying to stay away from. The bosses are the failures here.

He might not have been rehired but neither were 49 other poor shlubs meaning either he did suck or the more likely route of being made redundant because Sony has many other devs on their payroll that will be pouring over Vanguard, making thins work again.

So far this interview offers the most likely explanations for "what went wrong".

[ryoutou]

 :  Of course the people in the office knew, the management were morons, etc.

What else you expect them to say?

Very saddened, come on dude - you never worked in the corporate world or something?  This is normal stuff in adult meatspace man, if you have had a decent job or two outside some backwater it should be pretty familiar sort of a thing.  When a division or company is floundering, you restructure and rock on.  You don't "stay the course" into oblivion for chrissakes.  You think things were going peachy before then do you?

"Failure" my ass.  This game will be just fine, there was a shakeup, it was needed badly, move along.

http://www.f13.net/index.php?itemid=561

Apparently the office monkeys knew what they were doing, management just game them crap idea wise and tool wise to work with.

I am very saddened